Discussion:
Internet Service Providers in Laos
(too old to reply)
gusv
2007-03-02 15:21:25 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Is there any cheap internet service provider (dial-up, dsl,
wireless)in Laos? What is the monthly fee (with no annual contract)?
a***@gmail.com
2007-03-04 04:37:40 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by gusv
Is there any cheap internet service provider (dial-up, dsl,
wireless)in Laos? What is the monthly fee (with no annual contract)?
At least five Internet services providers that I know currently
serving customer in VTE and across country namely ETL, LaoTel,
Lanexangnet, SkyTel, and PlanetOnline. They offer ADSL and others as
well. Monthly cost ranging from $30 to over 1000 USD per mont. Speed
also vary from 64k to over 1 Meg/kbs. Check their respective website
for more info.

Cheers,
Anousak
gusv
2007-03-04 05:32:33 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Thank you Anousak for sharing this info. There seems to be many
providers in Laos, but virtually no competition at all. I wonder if
the cost for using internet which is a necessity in developed nations,
after the phones and televisions, for communicating and getting
informations worldwide would become cheaper in Laos in the near
future . For the time being, it 's very expensive for locals and
individual foreigners as well for lengthy usage and subscription.
Post by a***@gmail.com
Post by gusv
Is there any cheap internet service provider (dial-up, dsl,
wireless)in Laos? What is the monthly fee (with no annual contract)?
At least five Internet services providers that I know currently
serving customer in VTE and across country namely ETL, LaoTel,
Lanexangnet, SkyTel, and PlanetOnline. They offer ADSL and others as
well. Monthly cost ranging from $30 to over 1000 USD per mont. Speed
also vary from 64k to over 1 Meg/kbs. Check their respective website
for more info.
Cheers,
Anousak
a***@gmail.com
2007-03-04 15:39:39 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by gusv
Thank you Anousak for sharing this info. There seems to be many
providers in Laos, but virtually no competition at all. I wonder if
the cost for using internet which is a necessity in developed nations,
after the phones and televisions, for communicating and getting
informations worldwide would become cheaper in Laos in the near
future . For the time being, it 's very expensive for locals and
individual foreigners as well for lengthy usage and subscription.
Post by a***@gmail.com
Post by gusv
Is there any cheap internet service provider (dial-up, dsl,
wireless)in Laos? What is the monthly fee (with no annual contract)?
At least five Internet services providers that I know currently
serving customer in VTE and across country namely ETL, LaoTel,
Lanexangnet, SkyTel, and PlanetOnline. They offer ADSL and others as
well. Monthly cost ranging from $30 to over 1000 USD per mont. Speed
also vary from 64k to over 1 Meg/kbs. Check their respective website
for more info.
Cheers,
Anousak
Hi,

The competition is becoming real nowadays. However, since the cost of
infrastructure is so high the local service providers can't afford
going lower. Which is still really high compare to either Thailand or
even the US. In the US I can get Time Warner as mine cable and also
high speed Internet for the price of $40/month. Thailand, nowadays,
Internet is like a thing in past or should I say a toy where you'll
find it in the rural area and even remote mountainous region using
satelite disc.
IMHO, Laos will be sometime before the price come down and with
increase of the bandwidth.

Cheers,
Anousak
o***@yahoo.com
2007-03-04 19:58:40 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by a***@gmail.com
Thank you Anousak for sharing this info.  There seems to be many
providers in Laos, but virtually no competition at all.  I wonder if
the cost for using internet which is a necessity in developed nations,
after the phones and televisions, for communicating and getting
informations worldwide would become cheaper in Laos in the near
future .   For the time being, it 's very expensive for locals and
individual foreigners as well for lengthy usage and subscription.
Post by a***@gmail.com
Post by gusv
Is there any cheap internet service provider (dial-up, dsl,
wireless)in Laos?  What is the monthly fee (with no annual contract)?
At least five Internet services providers that I know currently
serving customer in VTE and across country namely ETL, LaoTel,
Lanexangnet, SkyTel, and PlanetOnline. They offer ADSL and others as
well. Monthly cost ranging from $30 to over 1000 USD per mont. Speed
also vary from 64k to over 1 Meg/kbs. Check their respective website
for more info.
Cheers,
Anousak
Hi,
The competition is becoming real nowadays. However, since the cost of
infrastructure is so high the local service providers can't afford
going lower. Which is still really high compare to either Thailand or
even the US.  In the US I can get Time Warner as mine cable and also
high speed Internet for the price of $40/month. Thailand, nowadays,
Internet is like a thing in past or should I say a toy where you'll
find it in the rural area and even remote mountainous region using
satelite disc.
IMHO, Laos will be sometime before the price come down and with
increase of the bandwidth.
Cheers,
Anousak- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Hi Anousak,

Why in your opinion the price if Internet subscription in Laos will
take sometime to come down? Is it due to lack of demand or rather a
price control issue by the government?

If I can draw similar analogy on the oversea telephone rates, calling
Laos from the US seems to be more expensive than calling Thailand for
instance. This is due to Lao government charging more taxes on the
phone rates?

It is interesting that you mention that Internet use and accessibility
in Thailand is now ubiquitous, What factors contribute to it?

Thanks,

OP
Phi Dung Mo
2007-03-05 04:44:32 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Omphien,
The answer is simple although two fold.

Lack of infrastructure, every house in Laos is not tied to telephone and
cable like those of North America or other locations. Then even if they are
tied to telephone already, are the lines adequate for high speed internet or
simply modems? Remember also that ADSL or cable modems have limited distance
back to a main network hub.

Secondly, volume, volume, volume. Everything gets cheaper with volume.
those that can afford the telephone and electricity, then must buy a
computer and learn to use it. Then they can finally think about internet.
Home computers started in North America in 1982, internet then only started
in earnst during mid 1990s for most. Laos will not move as quickly because
Lao nai don't see the practical use and they do not have the expendable
income for such luxurious electronic purchases.

Same volume issue with the telephone rates, the volume of calls to Laos
are significantly lower than to other countries, therefore telecom companies
don't buy large blocks of communication network time to Laos and realize
cheaper rates.

Phi Dung Mo

<***@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:***@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...

Hi Anousak,

Why in your opinion the price if Internet subscription in Laos will
take sometime to come down? Is it due to lack of demand or rather a
price control issue by the government?

If I can draw similar analogy on the oversea telephone rates, calling
Laos from the US seems to be more expensive than calling Thailand for
instance. This is due to Lao government charging more taxes on the
phone rates?

It is interesting that you mention that Internet use and accessibility
in Thailand is now ubiquitous, What factors contribute to it?

Thanks,

OP
o***@yahoo.com
2007-03-05 19:00:43 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Hi PDM,

If you can provide any link to support your claim that the volume of
international calls is related to international rate pricing, that
would be appreciative.

However, I want to add another element or complexity contributing to
the high cost of international call and internet access in Laos:
Tariff or government taxes. This element cannot be overlooked because
it is within the control of the government if the later truly intents
to reform existing telecom policies to expand internet and telephone
accessibility to the lao population at large.

According to the study done by ITU on Laos, Laos is among one of the
countries that charged the highest international phone rates in the
world. And 50% of the Lao telecom revenue are from international
rates.

See p.7 of the report or p.11 of the pdf file on item 2.5
(International Makes Money)in the link below for more details if you
haven't seen the report already.

http://www.itu.int/asean2001/reports/material/LAO%20CS.pdf

OP
Post by Phi Dung Mo
Omphien,
The answer is simple although two fold.
Lack of infrastructure, every house in Laos is not tied to telephone and
cable like those of North America or other locations. Then even if they are
tied to telephone already, are the lines adequate for high speed internet or
simply modems? Remember also that ADSL or cable modems have limited distance
back to a main network hub.
Secondly, volume, volume, volume. Everything gets cheaper with volume.
those that can afford the telephone and electricity, then must buy a
computer and learn to use it. Then they can finally think about internet.
Home computers started in North America in 1982, internet then only started
in earnst during mid 1990s for most. Laos will not move as quickly because
Lao nai don't see the practical use and they do not have the expendable
income for such luxurious electronic purchases.
Same volume issue with the telephone rates, the volume of calls to Laos
are significantly lower than to other countries, therefore telecom companies
don't buy large blocks of communication network time to Laos and realize
cheaper rates.
Phi Dung Mo
Hi Anousak,
Why in your opinion the price if Internet subscription in Laos will
take sometime to come down? Is it due to lack of demand or rather a
price control issue by the government?
If I can draw similar analogy on the oversea telephone rates, calling
Laos from the US seems to be more expensive than calling Thailand for
instance. This is due to Lao government charging more taxes on the
phone rates?
It is interesting that you mention that Internet use and accessibility
in Thailand is now ubiquitous, What factors contribute to it?
Thanks,
OP
Phi Dung Mo
2007-03-08 05:37:57 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Omphien,

Well I can't supply reference for volume and long distance call rates,
it is common sense and common business knowledge. Such information is
typically proprietary and confidential to the telecom companies and they
don't publish those details for public consumption. How do you think that
these discount phone cards operate? They buy large blocks of telecom network
time and resell them at discounted prices. It is a long standing simple
business model.

Is there a special LPDR tarriff or tax on internet? Is it a significant
factor in the overall cost? Or are you just trying to make up some excuse to
match your premise?

The rates charged by the LPDR for long distance is irrelevant. It
doesn't effect the previously mention cost of you calling Laos long
distance, that is set by your telecom carrier not the LPDR or LaoTel.

Phi Dung Mo
Post by o***@yahoo.com
Hi PDM,
If you can provide any link to support your claim that the volume of
international calls is related to international rate pricing, that
would be appreciative.
However, I want to add another element or complexity contributing to
Tariff or government taxes. This element cannot be overlooked because
it is within the control of the government if the later truly intents
to reform existing telecom policies to expand internet and telephone
accessibility to the lao population at large.
According to the study done by ITU on Laos, Laos is among one of the
countries that charged the highest international phone rates in the
world. And 50% of the Lao telecom revenue are from international
rates.
See p.7 of the report or p.11 of the pdf file on item 2.5
(International Makes Money)in the link below for more details if you
haven't seen the report already.
http://www.itu.int/asean2001/reports/material/LAO%20CS.pdf
OP
Post by Phi Dung Mo
Omphien,
The answer is simple although two fold.
Lack of infrastructure, every house in Laos is not tied to telephone and
cable like those of North America or other locations. Then even if they are
tied to telephone already, are the lines adequate for high speed internet or
simply modems? Remember also that ADSL or cable modems have limited distance
back to a main network hub.
Secondly, volume, volume, volume. Everything gets cheaper with volume.
those that can afford the telephone and electricity, then must buy a
computer and learn to use it. Then they can finally think about internet.
Home computers started in North America in 1982, internet then only started
in earnst during mid 1990s for most. Laos will not move as quickly because
Lao nai don't see the practical use and they do not have the expendable
income for such luxurious electronic purchases.
Same volume issue with the telephone rates, the volume of calls to Laos
are significantly lower than to other countries, therefore telecom companies
don't buy large blocks of communication network time to Laos and realize
cheaper rates.
Phi Dung Mo
Hi Anousak,
Why in your opinion the price if Internet subscription in Laos will
take sometime to come down? Is it due to lack of demand or rather a
price control issue by the government?
If I can draw similar analogy on the oversea telephone rates, calling
Laos from the US seems to be more expensive than calling Thailand for
instance. This is due to Lao government charging more taxes on the
phone rates?
It is interesting that you mention that Internet use and accessibility
in Thailand is now ubiquitous, What factors contribute to it?
Thanks,
OP
o***@yahoo.com
2007-03-08 06:37:38 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Phi Dung Mo
Omphien,
Well I can't supply reference for volume and long distance call rates,
it is common sense and common business knowledge. Such information is
typically proprietary and confidential to the telecom companies and they
don't publish those details for public consumption. How do you think that
these discount phone cards operate? They buy large blocks of telecom network
time and resell them at discounted prices. It is a long standing simple
business model.
Is there a special LPDR tarriff or tax on internet? Is it a significant
factor in the overall cost? Or are you just trying to make up some excuse to
match your premise?
The rates charged by the LPDR for long distance is irrelevant. It
doesn't effect the previously mention cost of you calling Laos long
distance, that is set by your telecom carrier not the LPDR or LaoTel.
Phi Dung Mo
Post by o***@yahoo.com
Hi PDM,
If you can provide any link to support your claim that the volume of
international calls is related to international rate pricing, that
would be appreciative.
However, I want to add another element or complexity contributing to
Tariff or government taxes. This element cannot be overlooked because
it is within the control of the government if the later truly intents
to reform existing telecom policies to expand internet and telephone
accessibility to the lao population at large.
According to the study done by ITU on Laos, Laos is among one of the
countries that charged the highest international phone rates in the
world. And 50% of the Lao telecom revenue are from international
rates.
See p.7 of the report or p.11 of the pdf file on item 2.5
(International Makes Money)in the link below for more details if you
haven't seen the report already.
http://www.itu.int/asean2001/reports/material/LAO%20CS.pdf
OP
Post by Phi Dung Mo
Omphien,
The answer is simple although two fold.
Lack of infrastructure, every house in Laos is not tied to telephone and
cable like those of North America or other locations. Then even if they are
tied to telephone already, are the lines adequate for high speed internet or
simply modems? Remember also that ADSL or cable modems have limited distance
back to a main network hub.
Secondly, volume, volume, volume. Everything gets cheaper with volume.
those that can afford the telephone and electricity, then must buy a
computer and learn to use it. Then they can finally think about internet.
Home computers started in North America in 1982, internet then only started
in earnst during mid 1990s for most. Laos will not move as quickly because
Lao nai don't see the practical use and they do not have the expendable
income for such luxurious electronic purchases.
Same volume issue with the telephone rates, the volume of calls to Laos
are significantly lower than to other countries, therefore telecom companies
don't buy large blocks of communication network time to Laos and realize
cheaper rates.
Phi Dung Mo
Hi Anousak,
Why in your opinion the price if Internet subscription in Laos will
take sometime to come down? Is it due to lack of demand or rather a
price control issue by the government?
If I can draw similar analogy on the oversea telephone rates, calling
Laos from the US seems to be more expensive than calling Thailand for
instance. This is due to Lao government charging more taxes on the
phone rates?
It is interesting that you mention that Internet use and accessibility
in Thailand is now ubiquitous, What factors contribute to it?
Thanks,
OP- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
PDM,

When doing research, I rather stay with supporting and verifiable
facts rather than assumption however plausible may the later be.

If you are convinced that tariff is irrelevant to LPDR international
phone rate, contrary to what was stated in the ITU study report, it is
entirely up to you.

Thanks for trying anyway.

OP
Phi Dung Mo
2007-03-09 04:09:18 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Well you are welcome to search out the bulk rates paid by telecoms for
long distance. Good luck, you likely won't find anything, as I mentioned it
is proprietary information and they don't publish it. If you don't
understand that the basic concept of call volume dictates cost, then you are
missing the most basic premise of all business. And on the grand scale of
things, lao long distance calls just don't measure up with grand totals of
7+ million Lao around the world.

My previous comments about tariffs or taxes was legitimately asking
whether you knew the details of a tariff or were you just making baseless
assumptions and politically desparaging inuendoes? I see from your report
that there is no mention in it of a LPDR tariff or tax and particularly not
in reference to making either long distance or internet expensive.


So with your fancy report, where does it mention any LPDR tariff or tax?
I might point out that within the telecom industry tariff is simply another
word for billing rate. That is how the few instances of tariff or tariffs
are used in your report, simply the per minute rates charged. It is not an
additional government tariff or tax, like you seem to be thinking. So it
seems you are taking statements about high long distance rates and
pretending it is a LPDR tariff or tax. Seems to me it is exactly as the
article explains, the telephone company is using very high long distance
rates to subsidize very low local telephone rates. Your report does not
support your premise, so what good is your reliance on research when you
either dismiss it or make up your own unfounded conclusions regardless of
the reports of experts?

Likewise in my comments I said that the high long distance rate (your
supposed tariff) was not a factor to you or I calling to Laos long distance.
I stand by that statement because I can call Laos for approx. $0.15 USD per
minute. So where is this tariff? At 0.15USD per minute it is about $0.04USD
per minute more than calling Thailand or Vietnam which would field at least
10 times the call volumes.

I see that the first paragraph of section 3 says basically exactly the
same thing(s) that I said about internet costs in Laos. So your own research
supports my point and yet you suggest I am remiss for not supplying
references for what is common sense and common knowledge?

So could you please explain with your research where you have derived
this whole premise of either a LPDR tariff or tax on telecom and it's
resposibility for high internet costs?

If you are going to supply research materials, then I suggest that you
read them thoroughly and undersatand what they are saying before you hold
them up as something they are not. I had not had time to read your supplied
link until tonight.

Phi Dung Mo
Post by o***@yahoo.com
Post by Phi Dung Mo
Omphien,
Well I can't supply reference for volume and long distance call rates,
it is common sense and common business knowledge. Such information is
typically proprietary and confidential to the telecom companies and they
don't publish those details for public consumption. How do you think that
these discount phone cards operate? They buy large blocks of telecom network
time and resell them at discounted prices. It is a long standing simple
business model.
Is there a special LPDR tarriff or tax on internet? Is it a significant
factor in the overall cost? Or are you just trying to make up some excuse to
match your premise?
The rates charged by the LPDR for long distance is irrelevant. It
doesn't effect the previously mention cost of you calling Laos long
distance, that is set by your telecom carrier not the LPDR or LaoTel.
Phi Dung Mo
Post by o***@yahoo.com
Hi PDM,
If you can provide any link to support your claim that the volume of
international calls is related to international rate pricing, that
would be appreciative.
However, I want to add another element or complexity contributing to
Tariff or government taxes. This element cannot be overlooked because
it is within the control of the government if the later truly intents
to reform existing telecom policies to expand internet and telephone
accessibility to the lao population at large.
According to the study done by ITU on Laos, Laos is among one of the
countries that charged the highest international phone rates in the
world. And 50% of the Lao telecom revenue are from international
rates.
See p.7 of the report or p.11 of the pdf file on item 2.5
(International Makes Money)in the link below for more details if you
haven't seen the report already.
http://www.itu.int/asean2001/reports/material/LAO%20CS.pdf
OP
Post by Phi Dung Mo
Omphien,
The answer is simple although two fold.
Lack of infrastructure, every house in Laos is not tied to
telephone
and
cable like those of North America or other locations. Then even if
they
are
tied to telephone already, are the lines adequate for high speed
internet
or
simply modems? Remember also that ADSL or cable modems have limited distance
back to a main network hub.
Secondly, volume, volume, volume. Everything gets cheaper with volume.
those that can afford the telephone and electricity, then must buy a
computer and learn to use it. Then they can finally think about internet.
Home computers started in North America in 1982, internet then only started
in earnst during mid 1990s for most. Laos will not move as quickly because
Lao nai don't see the practical use and they do not have the expendable
income for such luxurious electronic purchases.
Same volume issue with the telephone rates, the volume of calls to Laos
are significantly lower than to other countries, therefore telecom companies
don't buy large blocks of communication network time to Laos and realize
cheaper rates.
Phi Dung Mo
Hi Anousak,
Why in your opinion the price if Internet subscription in Laos will
take sometime to come down? Is it due to lack of demand or rather a
price control issue by the government?
If I can draw similar analogy on the oversea telephone rates, calling
Laos from the US seems to be more expensive than calling Thailand for
instance. This is due to Lao government charging more taxes on the
phone rates?
It is interesting that you mention that Internet use and accessibility
in Thailand is now ubiquitous, What factors contribute to it?
Thanks,
OP- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
PDM,
When doing research, I rather stay with supporting and verifiable
facts rather than assumption however plausible may the later be.
If you are convinced that tariff is irrelevant to LPDR international
phone rate, contrary to what was stated in the ITU study report, it is
entirely up to you.
Thanks for trying anyway.
OP
o***@yahoo.com
2007-03-09 19:24:32 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Phi Dung Mo
Well you are welcome to search out the bulk rates paid by telecoms for
long distance. Good luck, you likely won't find anything, as I mentioned it
is proprietary information and they don't publish it. If you don't
understand that the basic concept of call volume dictates cost, then you are
missing the most basic premise of all business. And on the grand scale of
things, lao long distance calls just don't measure up with grand totals of
7+ million Lao around the world.
My previous comments about tariffs or taxes was legitimately asking
whether you knew the details of a tariff or were you just making baseless
assumptions and politically desparaging inuendoes? I see from your report
that there is no mention in it of a LPDR tariff or tax and particularly not
in reference to making either long distance or internet expensive.
So with your fancy report, where does it mention any LPDR tariff or tax?
I might point out that within the telecom industry tariff is simply another
word for billing rate. That is how the few instances of tariff or tariffs
are used in your report, simply the per minute rates charged. It is not an
additional government tariff or tax, like you seem to be thinking. So it
seems you are taking statements about high long distance rates and
pretending it is a LPDR tariff or tax. Seems to me it is exactly as the
article explains, the telephone company is using very high long distance
rates to subsidize very low local telephone rates. Your report does not
support your premise, so what good is your reliance on research when you
either dismiss it or make up your own unfounded conclusions regardless of
the reports of experts?
Likewise in my comments I said that the high long distance rate (your
supposed tariff) was not a factor to you or I calling to Laos long distance.
I stand by that statement because I can call Laos for approx. $0.15 USD per
minute. So where is this tariff? At 0.15USD per minute it is about $0.04USD
per minute more than calling Thailand or Vietnam which would field at least
10 times the call volumes.
I see that the first paragraph of section 3 says basically exactly the
same thing(s) that I said about internet costs in Laos. So your own research
supports my point and yet you suggest I am remiss for not supplying
references for what is common sense and common knowledge?
So could you please explain with your research where you have derived
this whole premise of either a LPDR tariff or tax on telecom and it's
resposibility for high internet costs?
If you are going to supply research materials, then I suggest that you
read them thoroughly and undersatand what they are saying before you hold
them up as something they are not. I had not had time to read your supplied
link until tonight.
Phi Dung Mo
Post by o***@yahoo.com
Post by Phi Dung Mo
Omphien,
Well I can't supply reference for volume and long distance call rates,
it is common sense and common business knowledge. Such information is
typically proprietary and confidential to the telecom companies and they
don't publish those details for public consumption. How do you think that
these discount phone cards operate? They buy large blocks of telecom network
time and resell them at discounted prices. It is a long standing simple
business model.
Is there a special LPDR tarriff or tax on internet? Is it a significant
factor in the overall cost? Or are you just trying to make up some excuse to
match your premise?
The rates charged by the LPDR for long distance is irrelevant. It
doesn't effect the previously mention cost of you calling Laos long
distance, that is set by your telecom carrier not the LPDR or LaoTel.
Phi Dung Mo
Post by o***@yahoo.com
Hi PDM,
If you can provide any link to support your claim that the volume of
international calls is related to international rate pricing, that
would be appreciative.
However, I want to add another element or complexity contributing to
Tariff or government taxes. This element cannot be overlooked because
it is within the control of the government if the later truly intents
to reform existing telecom policies to expand internet and telephone
accessibility to the lao population at large.
According to the study done by ITU on Laos, Laos is among one of the
countries that charged the highest international phone rates in the
world. And 50% of the Lao telecom revenue are from international
rates.
See p.7 of the report or p.11 of the pdf file on item 2.5
(International Makes Money)in the link below for more details if you
haven't seen the report already.
http://www.itu.int/asean2001/reports/material/LAO%20CS.pdf
OP
Post by Phi Dung Mo
Omphien,
The answer is simple although two fold.
Lack of infrastructure, every house in Laos is not tied to
telephone
and
cable like those of North America or other locations. Then even if
they
are
tied to telephone already, are the lines adequate for high speed
internet
or
simply modems? Remember also that ADSL or cable modems have limited distance
back to a main network hub.
Secondly, volume, volume, volume. Everything gets cheaper with volume.
those that can afford the telephone and electricity, then must buy a
computer and learn to use it. Then they can finally think about internet.
Home computers started in North America in 1982, internet then only started
in earnst during mid 1990s for most. Laos will not move as quickly because
Lao nai don't see the practical use and they do not have the expendable
income for such luxurious electronic purchases.
Same volume issue with the telephone rates, the volume of calls to Laos
are significantly lower than to other countries, therefore telecom companies
don't buy large blocks of communication network time to Laos and realize
cheaper rates.
Phi Dung Mo
Hi Anousak,
Why in your opinion the price if Internet subscription in Laos will
take sometime to come down? Is it due to lack of demand or rather a
price control issue by the government?
If I can draw similar analogy on the oversea telephone rates, calling
Laos from the US seems to be more expensive than calling Thailand for
instance. This is due to Lao government charging more taxes on the
phone rates?
It is interesting that you mention that Internet use and accessibility
in Thailand is now ubiquitous, What factors contribute to it?
Thanks,
OP- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
PDM,
When doing research, I rather stay with supporting and verifiable
facts rather than assumption however plausible may the later be.
If you are convinced that tariff is irrelevant to LPDR international
phone rate, contrary to what was stated in the ITU study report, it is
entirely up to you.
Thanks for trying anyway.
OP
PDM,

Thanks for clarifying the facts that incoming international phone rate
from foreign countries to Laos appear not being subjected to tax or
tariffs in Laos.

Whether that depends on volume or not, I am still not convinced
because volume alone does not necessary lead to lower cost to
consumers IMHO.

Competition and the time when people makes the call seem to dictate
the rate if the consumer is using the regular carrier instead of phone
cards.

i.e. If you call at the peak hours, the rate is higher than the non-
peak hours regardless of the volume and lenght of the call.

However, the outgoing international phone rate from Laos is clearly
set by a company with full monopoly of the Lao telcom market and
controlled by the Lao government.

The ITU report clearly indicated that the outgoing international phone
rate is one of the highest in in the world at LPDR. And part of the
telecom's revenue goes directly to the LPDR's coffer in either form of
taxation or fee or tariff whatever they call it. We can dance around
calling this revenue tax, tariff, fee, services or commission however
we want it, but the bottom line is, it is a direct revenue to the
government.

And it is my assertion that, it is within the government's capabilites
to lower the outgoing call rate or at least designing the policy to
inflence it in order to lower barrier (cost) for busines and consumers
to make outgoing overseas calls if the government wants to. It is
commonly agreed at all levels that this digital barrier has negative
impacts on the economic development of the country.

Now on the Internet access issue, I asked Anousak the question whether
the barriers of expansion internet utilization could parallel the
international phone rate situation where the government is setting
artificially high price for ISP to access the backbone or it is set by
the commercial carriers. If that is the case, then the cost to access
internet in Laos will remain high and out of reach of the majority of
the population at large.

Of course cost of subscription is only one the factor but it is the
one that I am focused on.

I don't claim myself to be an expert because I am not. Actually, I am
quite a novice in this fielf. That is why I am here asking questions
and sharing what I found with others in order to expand our knowledge
with anyone who is interested in the subject, free of ego or arrogance
or insult.

If anyone who wants contribute in the constructive manner in this
discussion, I would like to read from you.

Thanks,

OP
gusv
2007-03-10 03:16:03 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Hi OP et al,

After reading various comments, I tend to agree more with OP in this
issue(not taking side). BTW, with my own opinion, greediness,
selfishness, and short-sightedness on the part of the government and
those involved companies seem to be a major factor for the high cost
of internet and international phone rates.

Gusv
Post by o***@yahoo.com
Post by Phi Dung Mo
Well you are welcome to search out the bulk rates paid by telecoms for
long distance. Good luck, you likely won't find anything, as I mentioned it
is proprietary information and they don't publish it. If you don't
understand that the basic concept of call volume dictates cost, then you are
missing the most basic premise of all business. And on the grand scale of
things, lao long distance calls just don't measure up with grand totals of
7+ million Lao around the world.
My previous comments about tariffs or taxes was legitimately asking
whether you knew the details of a tariff or were you just making baseless
assumptions and politically desparaging inuendoes? I see from your report
that there is no mention in it of a LPDR tariff or tax and particularly not
in reference to making either long distance or internet expensive.
So with your fancy report, where does it mention any LPDR tariff or tax?
I might point out that within the telecom industry tariff is simply another
word for billing rate. That is how the few instances of tariff or tariffs
are used in your report, simply the per minute rates charged. It is not an
additional government tariff or tax, like you seem to be thinking. So it
seems you are taking statements about high long distance rates and
pretending it is a LPDR tariff or tax. Seems to me it is exactly as the
article explains, the telephone company is using very high long distance
rates to subsidize very low local telephone rates. Your report does not
support your premise, so what good is your reliance on research when you
either dismiss it or make up your own unfounded conclusions regardless of
the reports of experts?
Likewise in my comments I said that the high long distance rate (your
supposed tariff) was not a factor to you or I calling to Laos long distance.
I stand by that statement because I can call Laos for approx. $0.15 USD per
minute. So where is this tariff? At 0.15USD per minute it is about $0.04USD
per minute more than calling Thailand or Vietnam which would field at least
10 times the call volumes.
I see that the first paragraph of section 3 says basically exactly the
same thing(s) that I said about internet costs in Laos. So your own research
supports my point and yet you suggest I am remiss for not supplying
references for what is common sense and common knowledge?
So could you please explain with your research where you have derived
this whole premise of either a LPDR tariff or tax on telecom and it's
resposibility for high internet costs?
If you are going to supply research materials, then I suggest that you
read them thoroughly and undersatand what they are saying before you hold
them up as something they are not. I had not had time to read your supplied
link until tonight.
Phi Dung Mo
Post by o***@yahoo.com
Post by Phi Dung Mo
Omphien,
Well I can't supply reference for volume and long distance call rates,
it is common sense and common business knowledge. Such information is
typically proprietary and confidential to the telecom companies and they
don't publish those details for public consumption. How do you think that
these discount phone cards operate? They buy large blocks of telecom network
time and resell them at discounted prices. It is a long standing simple
business model.
Is there a special LPDR tarriff or tax on internet? Is it a significant
factor in the overall cost? Or are you just trying to make up some excuse to
match your premise?
The rates charged by the LPDR for long distance is irrelevant. It
doesn't effect the previously mention cost of you calling Laos long
distance, that is set by your telecom carrier not the LPDR or LaoTel.
Phi Dung Mo
Post by o***@yahoo.com
Hi PDM,
If you can provide any link to support your claim that the volume of
international calls is related to international rate pricing, that
would be appreciative.
However, I want to add another element or complexity contributing to
Tariff or government taxes. This element cannot be overlooked because
it is within the control of the government if the later truly intents
to reform existing telecom policies to expand internet and telephone
accessibility to the lao population at large.
According to the study done by ITU on Laos, Laos is among one of the
countries that charged the highest international phone rates in the
world. And 50% of the Lao telecom revenue are from international
rates.
See p.7 of the report or p.11 of the pdf file on item 2.5
(International Makes Money)in the link below for more details if you
haven't seen the report already.
http://www.itu.int/asean2001/reports/material/LAO%20CS.pdf
OP
Post by Phi Dung Mo
Omphien,
The answer is simple although two fold.
Lack of infrastructure, every house in Laos is not tied to
telephone
and
cable like those of North America or other locations. Then even if
they
are
tied to telephone already, are the lines adequate for high speed
internet
or
simply modems? Remember also that ADSL or cable modems have limited
distance
back to a main network hub.
Secondly, volume, volume, volume. Everything gets cheaper with volume.
those that can afford the telephone and electricity, then must buy a
computer and learn to use it. Then they can finally think about internet.
Home computers started in North America in 1982, internet then only started
in earnst during mid 1990s for most. Laos will not move as quickly because
Lao nai don't see the practical use and they do not have the expendable
income for such luxurious electronic purchases.
Same volume issue with the telephone rates, the volume of calls to Laos
are significantly lower than to other countries, therefore telecom
companies
don't buy large blocks of communication network time to Laos and realize
cheaper rates.
Phi Dung Mo
Hi Anousak,
Why in your opinion the price if Internet subscription in Laos will
take sometime to come down? Is it due to lack of demand or rather a
price control issue by the government?
If I can draw similar analogy on the oversea telephone rates, calling
Laos from the US seems to be more expensive than calling Thailand for
instance. This is due to Lao government charging more taxes on the
phone rates?
It is interesting that you mention that Internet use and accessibility
in Thailand is now ubiquitous, What factors contribute to it?
Thanks,
OP- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
PDM,
When doing research, I rather stay with supporting and verifiable
facts rather than assumption however plausible may the later be.
If you are convinced that tariff is irrelevant to LPDR international
phone rate, contrary to what was stated in the ITU study report, it is
entirely up to you.
Thanks for trying anyway.
OP
PDM,
Thanks for clarifying the facts that incoming international phone rate
from foreign countries to Laos appear not being subjected to tax or
tariffs in Laos.
Whether that depends on volume or not, I am still not convinced
because volume alone does not necessary lead to lower cost to
consumers IMHO.
Competition and the time when people makes the call seem to dictate
the rate if the consumer is using the regular carrier instead of phone
cards.
i.e. If you call at the peak hours, the rate is higher than the non-
peak hours regardless of the volume and lenght of the call.
However, the outgoing international phone rate from Laos is clearly
set by a company with full monopoly of the Lao telcom market and
controlled by the Lao government.
The ITU report clearly indicated that the outgoing international phone
rate is one of the highest in in the world at LPDR. And part of the
telecom's revenue goes directly to the LPDR's coffer in either form of
taxation or fee or tariff whatever they call it. We can dance around
calling this revenue tax, tariff, fee, services or commission however
we want it, but the bottom line is, it is a direct revenue to the
government.
And it is my assertion that, it is within the government's capabilites
to lower the outgoing call rate or at least designing the policy to
inflence it in order to lower barrier (cost) for busines and consumers
to make outgoing overseas calls if the government wants to. It is
commonly agreed at all levels that this digital barrier has negative
impacts on the economic development of the country.
Now on the Internet access issue, I asked Anousak the question whether
the barriers of expansion internet utilization could parallel the
international phone rate situation where the government is setting
artificially high price for ISP to access the backbone or it is set by
the commercial carriers. If that is the case, then the cost to access
internet in Laos will remain high and out of reach of the majority of
the population at large.
Of course cost of subscription is only one the factor but it is the
one that I am focused on.
I don't claim myself to be an expert because I am not. Actually, I am
quite a novice in this fielf. That is why I am here asking questions
and sharing what I found with others in order to expand our knowledge
with anyone who is interested in the subject, free of ego or arrogance
or insult.
If anyone who wants contribute in the constructive manner in this
discussion, I would like to read from you.
Thanks,
OP
Phi Dung Mo
2007-03-16 06:03:25 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Omphien,
There is something you said in your latest comments below. You mention,
the time of calls. I haven't paid long distance rates tied to the timing of
the call for well over a decade and I don't use any service other than my
local telephone company. I do however prepay for x minutes of long distance
on a monthly basis and that gives me significantly reduced rates (If I
recall correctly from that long ago, Laos $1.80 1st minute and about
$0.80/minute there after, now a straight rate of approx. $0.15USD/minute
with the prepaid plan).

So what does that prepaid long distance do? It allows the telephone
company to purchase volume long disatnce services because they can plan in
advance on their requirements and negotiate lower rates with the big
international long distance networks because they know the volume of long
distance services their customers expect to use. This is similar to what the
pre-paid long distance cards do as well.

You are forgetting something, or ignoring the information from your own
supplied sources. The Lao telecom long distance while it may be controlled
by the government is not directly run by the government. You also seem to
forget that your ITU report also discussed the Lao local phone rates are
some of the lowest in the world. So if they did not charge high rates for
the long distance, what would this do to local rates? Obviously they are
subsidizing the local rates with the high long distance rates. Then you
would be disparaged about the local telephone rates. You can't have your
cake and eat it too.

The ITU report did not mention any form of government taxation or that
the government skimmed off those long distance rates. If you believe that it
did, then please supply some references, pages, sections, paragraphs, from
that report, I saw nothing that said anything of the sort. As I tried to
point out, the use of the word tariff within the report simply refers to the
telephone rate tariffs. A legal word, a historic word for the per minute
charges within the Telecom industry. Yes the government made income from the
telephone rates no matter whether local and long distance combined, they are
a partner in the company.

The greatest impediment to increased internet usage in Laos is simply
the fact that there are so few computer savvy people who even own a
computer. The ITU report chronicles that as did I, estimating at only 480
terminals countrywide. What do you expect, volume pricing like you have in
North America where 60% or greater of the population has access to a
computer and the internet, mostly from thier own homes. Again, what does
that relate to? Volume! With a population of only 6 million, Laos will
likely never have internet rates competitive to those of North America. Of
that population, how many even have reliable access to both telephone
(estimated 4% in the ITU report) and electricity? What does that mean, a
lack of volume! And high infrastructure costs for any expansion.

It may just be my perception of what you have written in this thread,
but it seems you are looking for a predefined outcome, not researching the
topic in earnst. You selectively absorb or use the facts you have found to
come to a predetermined outcome that you expected.

Phi Dung Mo
Post by o***@yahoo.com
PDM,
Thanks for clarifying the facts that incoming international phone rate
from foreign countries to Laos appear not being subjected to tax or
tariffs in Laos.
Whether that depends on volume or not, I am still not convinced
because volume alone does not necessary lead to lower cost to
consumers IMHO.
Competition and the time when people makes the call seem to dictate
the rate if the consumer is using the regular carrier instead of phone
cards.
i.e. If you call at the peak hours, the rate is higher than the non-
peak hours regardless of the volume and lenght of the call.
However, the outgoing international phone rate from Laos is clearly
set by a company with full monopoly of the Lao telcom market and
controlled by the Lao government.
The ITU report clearly indicated that the outgoing international phone
rate is one of the highest in in the world at LPDR. And part of the
telecom's revenue goes directly to the LPDR's coffer in either form of
taxation or fee or tariff whatever they call it. We can dance around
calling this revenue tax, tariff, fee, services or commission however
we want it, but the bottom line is, it is a direct revenue to the
government.
And it is my assertion that, it is within the government's capabilites
to lower the outgoing call rate or at least designing the policy to
inflence it in order to lower barrier (cost) for busines and consumers
to make outgoing overseas calls if the government wants to. It is
commonly agreed at all levels that this digital barrier has negative
impacts on the economic development of the country.
Now on the Internet access issue, I asked Anousak the question whether
the barriers of expansion internet utilization could parallel the
international phone rate situation where the government is setting
artificially high price for ISP to access the backbone or it is set by
the commercial carriers. If that is the case, then the cost to access
internet in Laos will remain high and out of reach of the majority of
the population at large.
Of course cost of subscription is only one the factor but it is the
one that I am focused on.
I don't claim myself to be an expert because I am not. Actually, I am
quite a novice in this fielf. That is why I am here asking questions
and sharing what I found with others in order to expand our knowledge
with anyone who is interested in the subject, free of ego or arrogance
or insult.
If anyone who wants contribute in the constructive manner in this
discussion, I would like to read from you.
Thanks,
OP
gusv
2007-03-17 15:08:07 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
The DSL cost of AT&T Yahoo High Speed Internet in the area where I
live in US, for instance, can be as low as $14.99/month with no
contract required. The download speed is from 384 to 768 Kbps. The
dial-up internet costs for unlimited access can be as low as $4.99/
month. The unlimited DSL costs of TOT and True companies in Thailand
are from 500 bahts/month with speed from 256/128 Kbps. Thailand also
has free internet(dial-up) but the user has to pay for telephone
charge of 3 bahts per each two-hour access. In my opinion, the
governments of these two countries encourage more competitions, less
tax and/or tariffs, and less gov. control, etc.

If the internet and international phone rates in Lpdr are still kept
at the current levels with no attempt to make them more affordable, I
don't think the VOLUME OF USE will go up anytime soon.

(cheap cost = high volume) vs (high cost = low volume)
o***@yahoo.com
2007-03-18 18:46:25 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by gusv
The DSL cost of AT&T Yahoo High Speed Internet in the area where I
live in US, for instance, can be as low as $14.99/month with no
contract required. The download speed is from 384 to 768 Kbps. The
dial-up internet costs for unlimited access can be as low as $4.99/
month. The unlimited DSL costs of TOT and True companies in Thailand
are from 500 bahts/month with speed from 256/128 Kbps. Thailand also
has free internet(dial-up) but the user has to pay for telephone
charge of 3 bahts per each two-hour access. In my opinion, the
governments of these two countries encourage more competitions, less
tax and/or tariffs, and less gov. control, etc.
If the internet and international phone rates in Lpdr are still kept
at the current levels with no attempt to make them more affordable, I
don't think the VOLUME OF USE will go up anytime soon.
(cheap cost = high volume) vs (high cost = low volume)
Hi gusv,

Can you elaborate more on the Internet access in Thailand? What you
said seems to be consistent with Anousak's posting saying that:

"Thailand, nowadays,Internet is like a thing in past or should I say a
toy where you'll find it in the rural area and even remote mountainous
region using satelite disc".

Thanks,

OP
gusv
2007-03-19 05:29:21 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Hi OP,

The following website seems to explain almost everythings I've known
about Thailand internet and more:

http://www.thailandguru.com/infra-internet.htm

Although I've been living in Thailand for quite period of times, I
mostly connect my internet via the phone lines ,either DSL/ADSL or
dial-up service. I sometimes connect my mobile phone to internet
through GPRS(General Radio Packet Service) in the areas where the
phone line is not available.

Satellite internet services are available in rural areas of Thailand
but it's very expensive and they are out of reach of most locals.
Usually, the services are used by the government programs such as
schools, health facilities in remote areas, etc.
Post by o***@yahoo.com
Post by gusv
The DSL cost of AT&T Yahoo High Speed Internet in the area where I
live in US, for instance, can be as low as $14.99/month with no
contract required. The download speed is from 384 to 768 Kbps. The
dial-up internet costs for unlimited access can be as low as $4.99/
month. The unlimited DSL costs of TOT and True companies in Thailand
are from 500 bahts/month with speed from 256/128 Kbps. Thailand also
has free internet(dial-up) but the user has to pay for telephone
charge of 3 bahts per each two-hour access. In my opinion, the
governments of these two countries encourage more competitions, less
tax and/or tariffs, and less gov. control, etc.
If the internet and international phone rates in Lpdr are still kept
at the current levels with no attempt to make them more affordable, I
don't think the VOLUME OF USE will go up anytime soon.
(cheap cost = high volume) vs (high cost = low volume)
Hi gusv,
Can you elaborate more on the Internet access in Thailand? What you
"Thailand, nowadays,Internet is like a thing in past or should I say a
toy where you'll find it in the rural area and even remote mountainous
region using satelite disc".
Thanks,
OP
gusv
2007-03-19 11:42:40 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Hi OP,

The website should be:
www.thailandguru.com

On the left menu, click on General information, infrastructure,
internet, internet upon arrival.
Post by gusv
Hi OP,
The following website seems to explain almost everythings I've known
http://www.thailandguru.com/infra-internet.htm
Although I've been living in Thailand for quite period of times, I
mostly connect my internet via the phone lines ,either DSL/ADSL or
dial-up service. I sometimes connect my mobile phone to internet
through GPRS(General Radio Packet Service) in the areas where the
phone line is not available.
Satellite internet services are available in rural areas of Thailand
but it's very expensive and they are out of reach of most locals.
Usually, the services are used by the government programs such as
schools, health facilities in remote areas, etc.
Post by o***@yahoo.com
Post by gusv
The DSL cost of AT&T Yahoo High Speed Internet in the area where I
live in US, for instance, can be as low as $14.99/month with no
contract required. The download speed is from 384 to 768 Kbps. The
dial-up internet costs for unlimited access can be as low as $4.99/
month. The unlimited DSL costs of TOT and True companies in Thailand
are from 500 bahts/month with speed from 256/128 Kbps. Thailand also
has free internet(dial-up) but the user has to pay for telephone
charge of 3 bahts per each two-hour access. In my opinion, the
governments of these two countries encourage more competitions, less
tax and/or tariffs, and less gov. control, etc.
If the internet and international phone rates in Lpdr are still kept
at the current levels with no attempt to make them more affordable, I
don't think the VOLUME OF USE will go up anytime soon.
(cheap cost = high volume) vs (high cost = low volume)
Hi gusv,
Can you elaborate more on the Internet access in Thailand? What you
"Thailand, nowadays,Internet is like a thing in past or should I say a
toy where you'll find it in the rural area and even remote mountainous
region using satelite disc".
Thanks,
OP
brushoff
2007-03-08 06:35:26 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by o***@yahoo.com
Post by a***@gmail.com
Thank you Anousak for sharing this info.  There seems to be many
providers in Laos, but virtually no competition at all.  I wonder if
the cost for using internet which is a necessity in developed nations,
after the phones and televisions, for communicating and getting
informations worldwide would become cheaper in Laos in the near
future .   For the time being, it 's very expensive for locals and
individual foreigners as well for lengthy usage and subscription.
Post by a***@gmail.com
Post by gusv
Is there any cheap internet service provider (dial-up, dsl,
wireless)in Laos?  What is the monthly fee (with no annual contract)?
At least five Internet services providers that I know currently
serving customer in VTE and across country namely ETL, LaoTel,
Lanexangnet, SkyTel, and PlanetOnline. They offer ADSL and others as
well. Monthly cost ranging from $30 to over 1000 USD per mont. Speed
also vary from 64k to over 1 Meg/kbs. Check their respective website
for more info.
Cheers,
Anousak
Hi,
The competition is becoming real nowadays. However, since the cost of
infrastructure is so high the local service providers can't afford
going lower. Which is still really high compare to either Thailand or
even the US.  In the US I can get Time Warner as mine cable and also
high speed Internet for the price of $40/month. Thailand, nowadays,
Internet is like a thing in past or should I say a toy where you'll
find it in the rural area and even remote mountainous region using
satelite disc.
IMHO, Laos will be sometime before the price come down and with
increase of the bandwidth.
Cheers,
Anousak- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Hi Anousak,
Why in your opinion the price if Internet subscription in Laos will
take sometime to come down? Is it due to lack of demand or rather a
price control issue by the government?
If I can draw similar analogy on the oversea telephone rates, calling
Laos from the US seems to be more expensive than calling Thailand for
instance. This is due to Lao government charging more taxes on the
phone rates?
It is interesting that you mention that Internet use and accessibility
in Thailand is now ubiquitous, What factors contribute to it?
Thanks,
OP- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
TOO MANY FUCKING BUFFALO RETARTRO'S WANTED TO BUILD THEIR WEALTHS
DICKS INSTEAD OF HUMAN INFASTRUCTURE. OOP.... LRPD SHOULD GO WIRELESS,
EXAMPLE, HAIRLESS ASS WIPES ON VIET'S KONG DICKS.
p***@gmail.com
2016-03-08 02:11:35 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by gusv
Is there any cheap internet service provider (dial-up, dsl,
wireless)in Laos? What is the monthly fee (with no annual contract)?
We are new licensed ISP in Vientiane, Lao PDR.

We offer highspeed Internet via fibreline, ADSL and wireless, Wifi hotspot installation and Pocket Wifi.

Please visit our website (www.laochampa.net) or leave your contact telephone or email address. Our Sales & Marketing Team will follow up with you.

Ryan Hong

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